2004-09-06

Rumors From Another World

Philip Yancey en 'Rumors of Another World'

Interviewed by Cindy Crosby


FR: Your new book, RUMORS OF ANOTHER WORLD, is a departure from your last several books, which --- directly or indirectly --- dealt with disappointment with the institutional church.

PY: My last book, SOUL SURVIVOR, had the subtitle "How my Faith Survived the Church." I got one letter from a pastor who said, "Philip, I get so tired of you criticizing the church that I feel like writing a book called HOW MY CHURCH SURVIVED YOUR FAITH! You're right. I have been open about problems with the institutional church. I grew up in a toxic, almost cultic church, and I hear daily from readers who are "in recovery" from such churches. The year I began writing RUMORS OF ANOTHER WORLD, however, I took four separate trips to Europe, which has a very different religious scene. In countries like Czech Republic and Denmark, as few as two percent of the population ever goes to church. Conversations with such people kept echoing in my mind as I wrote. My concerns broadened from "How do I ferret out the truth of Christian faith from the overlay the church puts on it?" to "Does the Christian view of the world make any sense?"

FR: What are the "borderlands of belief" you write about?

PY: Borderlands are in-between places, such as the "no-man's land" between countries that dispute territory. In matters of faith, people enter the borderlands from two different directions. Some, like me, flee an unhealthy church experience yet still believe in an unseen reality worth pursuing. Others find church an alien experience: everyone else knows when to stand up or sit down and what to sing, but to an outsider it may seem foreign and off-putting. Even so, almost all people have a religious sense at various times. Many describe themselves as "spiritual but not religious." I call such people "borderlanders."

FR: If there is an invisible world out there, why don't we see more evidence of it on earth?

PY: In this book, rather than asking why I don't see more evidence of God, I ask what evidence we do see. I look at nature, at beauty, at conscience, at epiphanies. These are rumors, not facts or proofs. I've concluded that a good share of the responsibility is ours: we need to learn to pay attention to rumors that are present, but overlooked.

FR: Your chapter "Designer Sex" is intriguing. Do you see sex as one of the "rumors of another world?"

PY: Yes, indeed, perhaps the most powerful rumor of transcendence that we have. I mention that Sports Illustrated calls its swimsuit models goddesses and Victoria's Secret dresses up its lingerie models in angel costumes. For many people, the nearly irresistible power of sex, a power that pulls them out of themselves toward another person, may be the closest they get to a religious experience.

FR: Has the church failed in presenting a persuasive point of view on sexuality?

PY: The church has failed in virtually every way. Most people view the church as anti-sex, concerned with the "thou shalt nots" of sexuality. Yet if we believe God invented sex --- including all the beauty, the strangeness, the wonder, even the humor of it ---surely God is pro-sex in the most profound way. I title that chapter "Designer Sex" because I believe the church's main challenge should be to articulate what the designer intended with sexuality. The more we align with that design, the more sexually fulfilled we will be.

FR: You write that you have actually undergone two conversions --- first from the natural world to discover the supernatural, and later another conversion where you rediscovered the natural from a new viewpoint. Please explain.

PY: After a rather bitter church experience, and a period of unbelief, I came back to God because of three things: romantic love, classical music, and the beauties of nature. G. K. Chesterton made the comment that the worst moment for an atheist is when he feels a deep sense of gratitude and has no one to thank. That describes my predicament precisely. I envisioned God as a frowning "supercop" in the sky who wanted to keep me from having a good time and to punish me for wrongdoing. Instead I discovered, initially through these "rumors," that the heart of the universe is a smile, not a frown.

FR: Anything else?

PY: Later, I revisited territory from my childhood faith and learned that love, grace, creativity, beauty and mercy were present in the Bible all the time; I had missed them. Now, as a believing Christian, I like to explore that territory, to honor and revere the natural world, and also individual human beings, as God's creations. Many people consider themselves environmentalists, but why? I know why --- because I am showing respect for God's gift to us, his work of art. Why support human rights movements? Because I believe a peasant in prison in China or Myanmar contains the image of God, and for that reason his or her basic human rights are worth protecting. In such ways I rediscover the natural world from a new viewpoint.

FR: You write that you used to believe "If it feels good, it must be sinful." How has your viewpoint changed?

PY: Several decades ago if you had asked me my definition of sin I would have said, "God's way of keeping us from having a good time." Now I would say, "God's way of keeping us from harming ourselves." I give many illustrations of why I now believe the following: If it feels good, it probably serves as a rumor of another world, and the most fulfilling way to "feel good" is by seeking out the designer's intent in that rumor. I can't do justice to that statement here; in a sense, the entire book makes that argument.

FR: Rather vulnerably, you share a list of your own patterns of sin in the book, including deceit, discontent, hypocrisy, greed and pride.

PY: I mention these particular sins as occupational hazards of a writer. Writing is a kind of exhibitionism, isn't it? I strip away the layers and try to express reality about myself. Because I do it in the privacy of my office, where I sit alone with my computer, it doesn't feel exhibitionistic at the time. Often it feels therapeutic --- much the way we feel when we go to a priest for confession or a counselor for therapy.

FR: There are some beautiful images of nature in RUMORS OF ANOTHER WORLD. Several years ago you moved from the Chicago area to Colorado. Has this affected your writing?

PY: I made that move at a time when I wanted to shift my style of writing. Chicago was great for journalism, for writing others' stories. I would walk outside my condo and see someone having an epileptic fit or getting mugged or whatever. I moved to Colorado at a time when I wanted to write more of my own story, a more reflective and meditative kind of writing. Colorado has been a very nourishing environment for that kind of writing. Most days I see more wild animals than people. I have to write about myself because there's no one else around!

FR: You write that it is relatively easy to "hallow" God in nature and much harder to "hallow" the ordinary events of your life. How do you try to make ordinary encounters and events an offering to God?

PY: It takes intentionality. I learn from the spiritual masters, most of who are Catholics, like Benedict and Patrick. For me, the key is learning to live for an audience of one. At the end of the day, do I judge myself by what other people think of me, or by the success standards of surrounding culture, or by my faithfulness to what I call the rules of the invisible world. How do I follow the rules of the invisible world, which require me to care about the poor and unattractive, for example, while living in a visible world that honors wealth and beauty?

FR: Your affection for C. S. Lewis, especially for THE WEIGHT OF GLORY, is obvious in the book. What role has his work played in your life?

PY: Lewis is a guide in all my books, but perhaps especially in this one because it so parallels his own spiritual awakening. What I call rumors he called longings. In his case, Wagnerian operas and Nordic myths stirred his belief in an invisible world. I can't say I share his taste, but I do share his sensibilities, and lean on him heavily.

FR: You turned 50 a few years ago. What are your goals in this stage of your life?

PY: Let's see. I'd like to climb all the mountains in Colorado over 14,000 feet. I'm getting there; I've climbed 38 out of 54 so far. I would like to continue traveling internationally. My wife and I take an average of four overseas trips a year, and I find it very stimulating to look at my own culture and my own faith through the eyes of people who view it differently. I would like to be able to respond with a ten-year career plan, but frankly it's all I can do to focus on one book at a time.

FR: What's next for you then, book-wise?

PY: I don't know. Honestly, I don't. Rumors took a toll. I find that writing gets harder and harder, perhaps because with each book I learn more of what I'm doing wrong. For the first time ever, I'm going to take a break, and not even decide what to write about for another six months or so.

FR: How do you resist the temptation to write what you know will sell versus to write what you're called to say by God?

PY: I figured out a long time ago that my calling as a writer is to represent the ordinary person in the pew, to describe a single pilgrimage. I try not to come across as an authority figure --- I'm not a pastor or formal teacher --- but as a pilgrim. I write about questions that occur to me and struggles I want to explore, and when I write I never know whether anyone else has the same questions or struggles. Besides, who knows what will sell, anyway? So many mega-books are surprise bestsellers.

FR: How does your calling as a writer shape your days?

PY: Much like a mystic, a writer has to "center." For me, the biggest challenge is to avoid distraction. When I worked as a magazine editor, I followed the office routine of moving papers around, responding to phone calls, letters, faxes. Writing is the hardest thing I do, so now that I am a freelancer, I find it easy to pick up this busy work instead. It's so much easier than writing. Somehow I have to fence off and preserve that time of undistracted, full concentration. Of course, at times I emerge from the cave and meet the readers of my books. I'm responding to this interview, in fact, in the midst of a twelve-city book tour. After the introspection and solitude of writing a book, it seems very strange to visit bookstores and interact with live people day after day. As an introvert, I find that grueling. But I remind myself that anything is easier than writing.

--- Interviewed by Cindy Crosby (phrelanzer@aol.com)

posted by Peter Wierenga @ 16:37